> the Fragrance Lake box
> involves several miles of a stiff climb up a trail.

It's all a matter of perspective. I'd say it was a few miles of a
slight climb. =) If you want a stiff climb, I can show you some
stiff climbs! But Fragrance Lake isn't one of them. =)

I might also point out that the Seattle area seems to have a large
percentage of pretty ugly looking stamps, and if you decide to go
out to hunt them down to make a distinction between "quality"
versus "quantity". Decide which class of stamps you want to nab
and focus on those.

As for quality, there's a Cougar series at Discovery Park with
absolutely GORGIOUS stamps, although one was missing
when I looked for them. (I've heard that it's since been replaced,
though.) The Snoqualmie Falls series is also famous in the
area for the incredible artwork.

The Washington Wolf Mystery box, Briddle Trails, and Lost Loons
letteerboxes are store-bought stamps, if that makes a difference.
(Although Wolf Mystery is so quick to pick up, it's almost a crime
not to--even if it's midnight while you're driving by the area!)

The First Annual Thankgiving letterbox has a wonderful carving.

The Halloween series is simple, but the stamps are adorable.
=) The Lynn Canyon boxes (disclaimer: I hid one of them) near
Vancouver are especially good stamps too.

The Point Defiance Sports series is pretty simple too, but I love
the carvings. The characters depicted on them are just too
darned cute. =) I especially liked the clues to boot. Very
different, and a nice change from the usual "take 385 steps and
look behind tree" kind of clues.

I've heard rumors about a lot of new great stamp carvers
inhabiting the Seattle area since I last past through (about six
months ago), so there might be more worth adding to the list. My
list is certainly not complete, but they're boxes I've nabbed which
I thought were especially well-carved. That, and since "quality" is
subjunctive, I'm sure there are plenty of people who'd look at the
same stamps and say, "That's crap!" (Or vice-versa, where I
think it's lousy but others think it's wonderful.)

If you'd rather go for quantity than quality, then just look at the
number in the series and off you go. Point Defiance seems to
be littered with tons of boxes from several series!

-- Ryan

Problem is, almost all of the Point Defiance boxes have been mysteriously
deleted from the LbNA list.

----- Original Message -----
From: "rscarpen"
To:
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 9:45 AM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Seattle Letterboxes


> > the Fragrance Lake box
> > involves several miles of a stiff climb up a trail.
>
> It's all a matter of perspective. I'd say it was a few miles of a
> slight climb. =) If you want a stiff climb, I can show you some
> stiff climbs! But Fragrance Lake isn't one of them. =)
>
> I might also point out that the Seattle area seems to have a large
> percentage of pretty ugly looking stamps, and if you decide to go
> out to hunt them down to make a distinction between "quality"
> versus "quantity". Decide which class of stamps you want to nab
> and focus on those.
>
> As for quality, there's a Cougar series at Discovery Park with
> absolutely GORGIOUS stamps, although one was missing
> when I looked for them. (I've heard that it's since been replaced,
> though.) The Snoqualmie Falls series is also famous in the
> area for the incredible artwork.
>
> The Washington Wolf Mystery box, Briddle Trails, and Lost Loons
> letteerboxes are store-bought stamps, if that makes a difference.
> (Although Wolf Mystery is so quick to pick up, it's almost a crime
> not to--even if it's midnight while you're driving by the area!)
>
> The First Annual Thankgiving letterbox has a wonderful carving.
>
> The Halloween series is simple, but the stamps are adorable.
> =) The Lynn Canyon boxes (disclaimer: I hid one of them) near
> Vancouver are especially good stamps too.
>
> The Point Defiance Sports series is pretty simple too, but I love
> the carvings. The characters depicted on them are just too
> darned cute. =) I especially liked the clues to boot. Very
> different, and a nice change from the usual "take 385 steps and
> look behind tree" kind of clues.
>
> I've heard rumors about a lot of new great stamp carvers
> inhabiting the Seattle area since I last past through (about six
> months ago), so there might be more worth adding to the list. My
> list is certainly not complete, but they're boxes I've nabbed which
> I thought were especially well-carved. That, and since "quality" is
> subjunctive, I'm sure there are plenty of people who'd look at the
> same stamps and say, "That's crap!" (Or vice-versa, where I
> think it's lousy but others think it's wonderful.)
>
> If you'd rather go for quantity than quality, then just look at the
> number in the series and off you go. Point Defiance seems to
> be littered with tons of boxes from several series!
>
> -- Ryan
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe: mailto:letterbox-usa-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> List info, archives, etc: http://www.letterboxing.org/list.html
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

Seattle Vicinity letterboxes--

If you want a neat history lesson during your hunt, look for
the DuPont series of letterboxes. The start point is about 1/8 mile
off of I-5 Exit 119 (just 14 miles North of Olympia or 14 miles
South of Tacoma) and will lead you through the historic area of
DuPont and the original site of Fort Nisqually (which is pretty
important in Pacific Northwest history). The clues are pretty
simple and the trail is perfect if you have small children traveling
with you. It doesn't require a WHOLE lot of time to find these
three boxes, either and is a good opportunity for a rest break
during a long day of traveling.

Enjoy your trip!

dvn2r ckr
F48P15X6

Not to mention Tacoma Nature Center, Titlow, Whidbey Island (Deception Pass)!!

----- Original Message -----
From: "rscarpen"
To:
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 9:45 AM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Seattle Letterboxes


> > the Fragrance Lake box
> > involves several miles of a stiff climb up a trail.
>
> It's all a matter of perspective. I'd say it was a few miles of a
> slight climb. =) If you want a stiff climb, I can show you some
> stiff climbs! But Fragrance Lake isn't one of them. =)
>
> I might also point out that the Seattle area seems to have a large
> percentage of pretty ugly looking stamps, and if you decide to go
> out to hunt them down to make a distinction between "quality"
> versus "quantity". Decide which class of stamps you want to nab
> and focus on those.
>
> As for quality, there's a Cougar series at Discovery Park with
> absolutely GORGIOUS stamps, although one was missing
> when I looked for them. (I've heard that it's since been replaced,
> though.) The Snoqualmie Falls series is also famous in the
> area for the incredible artwork.
>
> The Washington Wolf Mystery box, Briddle Trails, and Lost Loons
> letteerboxes are store-bought stamps, if that makes a difference.
> (Although Wolf Mystery is so quick to pick up, it's almost a crime
> not to--even if it's midnight while you're driving by the area!)
>
> The First Annual Thankgiving letterbox has a wonderful carving.
>
> The Halloween series is simple, but the stamps are adorable.
> =) The Lynn Canyon boxes (disclaimer: I hid one of them) near
> Vancouver are especially good stamps too.
>
> The Point Defiance Sports series is pretty simple too, but I love
> the carvings. The characters depicted on them are just too
> darned cute. =) I especially liked the clues to boot. Very
> different, and a nice change from the usual "take 385 steps and
> look behind tree" kind of clues.
>
> I've heard rumors about a lot of new great stamp carvers
> inhabiting the Seattle area since I last past through (about six
> months ago), so there might be more worth adding to the list. My
> list is certainly not complete, but they're boxes I've nabbed which
> I thought were especially well-carved. That, and since "quality" is
> subjunctive, I'm sure there are plenty of people who'd look at the
> same stamps and say, "That's crap!" (Or vice-versa, where I
> think it's lousy but others think it's wonderful.)
>
> If you'd rather go for quantity than quality, then just look at the
> number in the series and off you go. Point Defiance seems to
> be littered with tons of boxes from several series!
>
> -- Ryan
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe: mailto:letterbox-usa-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> List info, archives, etc: http://www.letterboxing.org/list.html
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>

I have to admit I'm a bit discouraged by your post! :-(

I'm new to the sport/hobby - I'm certainly no artist. To think that my
letterboxes are somehow less desirable because of my lack of artistic skills
is not an enjoyable thought. I was under the impression that the hunt and
exploring new areas were the primary factors, and the quality of the stamp was
something that was way down on the list of "important" factors.

Perhaps that's not what you were saying, and I've simply misinterpreted your
remarks. If so, please set me straight!

Best regards,


-HangGlider

On Fri, 06 Sep 2002 16:45:10 -0000 rscarpen wrote:

> > the Fragrance Lake box
> > involves several miles of a stiff climb up a
> trail.
>
> It's all a matter of perspective. I'd say it
> was a few miles of a
> slight climb. =) If you want a stiff climb, I
> can show you some
> stiff climbs! But Fragrance Lake isn't one of
> them. =)
>
> I might also point out that the Seattle area
> seems to have a large
> percentage of pretty ugly looking stamps, and
> if you decide to go
> out to hunt them down to make a distinction
> between "quality"
> versus "quantity". Decide which class of
> stamps you want to nab
> and focus on those.
>
> As for quality, there's a Cougar series at
> Discovery Park with
> absolutely GORGIOUS stamps, although one was
> missing
> when I looked for them. (I've heard that it's
> since been replaced,
> though.) The Snoqualmie Falls series is also
> famous in the
> area for the incredible artwork.
>
> The Washington Wolf Mystery box, Briddle
> Trails, and Lost Loons
> letteerboxes are store-bought stamps, if that
> makes a difference.
> (Although Wolf Mystery is so quick to pick up,
> it's almost a crime
> not to--even if it's midnight while you're
> driving by the area!)
>
> The First Annual Thankgiving letterbox has a
> wonderful carving.
>
> The Halloween series is simple, but the stamps
> are adorable.
> =) The Lynn Canyon boxes (disclaimer: I hid
> one of them) near
> Vancouver are especially good stamps too.
>
> The Point Defiance Sports series is pretty
> simple too, but I love
> the carvings. The characters depicted on them
> are just too
> darned cute. =) I especially liked the clues
> to boot. Very
> different, and a nice change from the usual
> "take 385 steps and
> look behind tree" kind of clues.
>
> I've heard rumors about a lot of new great
> stamp carvers
> inhabiting the Seattle area since I last past
> through (about six
> months ago), so there might be more worth
> adding to the list. My
> list is certainly not complete, but they're
> boxes I've nabbed which
> I thought were especially well-carved. That,
> and since "quality" is
> subjunctive, I'm sure there are plenty of
> people who'd look at the
> same stamps and say, "That's crap!" (Or
> vice-versa, where I
> think it's lousy but others think it's
> wonderful.)
>
> If you'd rather go for quantity than quality,
> then just look at the
> number in the series and off you go. Point
> Defiance seems to
> be littered with tons of boxes from several
> series!
>
> -- Ryan
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> To unsubscribe:
> mailto:letterbox-usa-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> List info, archives, etc:
> http://www.letterboxing.org/list.html
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

> I'm new to the sport/hobby - I'm certainly no artist. To think that my
> letterboxes are somehow less desirable because of my lack of artistic skills
> is not an enjoyable thought. I was under the impression that the hunt and
> exploring new areas were the primary factors, and the quality of the stamp
> was something that was way down on the list of "important" factors.

There is no "primary factor". To each his or her own. I'm in it for the
clues, and if clues are not the primary factor of the rest of the world, so
be it -- I don't let it bother me and I continue to enjoy the aspects of the
hobby I enjoy, and ignore the rest. I like to think that is a good attitude
in something as subjective (as opposed to subjunctive ;-)) as this ...

I think you have to accept that all letterboxes will have a different
"desirability", for any number of factors, as some people are in it for the
stamps, hike, place, clues, jacking up the PF numbers, etc, and lets face
it, most people would enjoy a two mile hike thru breathtaking wilderness
over a 10 mile slog thru a toxic sludge dump, so to deny desirability isn't
realistic. As the demographics of the group change, tho, the "desirability"
will change anyway, so it seems obvious, at least to me, to ignore this aspect
(and this paragraph :-)).

My stamps are really lame. They are worse than yours. It doesn't bother
me, and I don't care if no one looks for them. I put my boxes out for people
who see the hobby the way I do. So, some people will ignore your boxes if
the stamps are lame, but that is a silly reason to not enjoy the hobby and
not to put boxes out. BUT: even tho the world knows my stamps are lame,
lots of people still look for them. I think what it comes down to is
people enjoy something special, be that a stamp, cool new place, etc.,
but most people won't disparage stuff that doesn't measure up (and most
doesn't), SO DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT :-)

Finally, there are ways to make lemonade, tho, which is what I've managed
to do in some cases. If a stamp can't be a work of art, make it something
else of value for those with eyes to see. Or, befriend an artist and have
them do this for you, if you are really self-conscious about it. And, of
course, you will get better at it, if you take the time to try. You don't
really have to be an artist, as there is plenty of quality, public domain
(or otherwise useable) art available, you just have to be somewhat handy with
a carving knife (or handy with a checkbook at a custom stamp making place,
which as I understand it, is certainly not taboo across the pond). But this
paragraph can be ignored also.

HTH
Randy

To clarify a few things in my post which, based on the posts here
and the e-mails I've gotten, needs some serious clarifications!

There's nothing wrong with crappy stamps. I've hidden them
myself--knowingly and deliberately hidden crappy stamps, and
even on my website I tell people straight up the desireability of
the stamp. It's not so much that crappy stamps aren't worth
getting, but ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL, I'd prefer the better stamp.
If time permits, I'd like to get all the letterboxes, though.

In fact, on my website I try to tell people several things about the
letterbox including how difficult the clue is, how difficult the terrain
is, how good/bad the stamp is, and even describe the area a bit.
These are all aspects that affect the desireability of a stamp.
Most people mention stuff like how hard the trail is, but neglet to
say if the stamp is any good. This is very important to me if time
is limited, because if I have the choice between a good stamp
and a bad one, all else being equal, I'd prefer the good one.

The poor guy going through Seattle doesn't sound like he has
time to nab ALL the letterboxes in the area, and I wanted to point
him out to particulary noteworthy letterboxes. All else being
equal, I figured he'd prefer the better stamps.

And while there's a certain amount of subjectivity involved in
saying a stamp is good or not, there's a certain amount of
objectivity too. It's like comparing Rosanne Barr with Meg Ryan.
While *some* people might think Rosanne Barr is the hottie
between the two, there's no contest between who'll win that
beauty contest.

Finally, I never intended to imply a letterbox is only worth
acquiring only if it has a well-carved stamp. It's the whole
package. Different people have different preferences. I like
clues that are interesting or witty. I absolutely loved hunting
down the Shakespeare letterbox in Ashland despite finding
store-bought stamps in them. The clue totally made the
experience great. I've heard rumors that the Davis box has an
absolutely awful stamp (I can say this only because I've heard it
second-hand, and I'm not the one judging the quality), but I'm
DIEING to find the box because I've heard so much about the
"ballsy" place it was hidden.

Living in Portland, all else being equal, I'd be more likely to nab a
box in the Columbia River Gorge than a park right next to me,
because I like the gorge better.

All else being equal, I'd prefer fantastic stamps than cruddy
ones. All else being equal, I'd prefer cruddy stamps to
store-bought ones. And all else being equal, I'd prefer store
bought stamps than no letterboxes at all.

But if time permits, I'd rather get all the letterboxes, cruddy and
store-bought stamps included.

And finally, while I never pointed out pricisely which stamps I
thought were cruddy (while it's okay to point out particularly
well-done stamps, the opposite never seems to be the case),
many cruddy stamps do exist in the Seattle area.

If someone takes offense at that observation, do something
about it. Take carving lessons, keep practicing new techniques,
ask other carvers how they did a particular stamp, etc. Then start
hiding better ones. There's a world of difference between the
first stamps I started to place (mediocre, at best) to the ones I
place today (some of which surprise even myself in how good
they are). But even today I still place cruddy stamps
occasionally. Usually it's when I carve something right at the
place I intend to hide it so I don't have time to do a careful,
well-carved stamp or am under some other time constraint. But
I'll still hide the cruddy stamp under the protective flag that a
cruddy stamp is better than none at all.

For me there's three parts to creating a great letterbox: The clue,
the location, and the stamp. Any one of those can make a box
worthwhile, but the best boxes combine the best of all three.
Everyone always seems to post the clue and location with their
clues, so I helped provide information about the stamps
themselves to help narrow down which boxes to hunt for first.

Letterboxing should be fun, and I was trying to help that by
providing more information about the Seattle-area boxes.

-- Ryan

Good points, of course, but intelligent people can disagree about the
details :-)

> Everyone always seems to post the clue and location with their
> clues, so I helped provide information about the stamps
> themselves to help narrow down which boxes to hunt for first.

I post the clues to my boxes. The stamp, route, and location are to
be discovered along the way ...

> Letterboxing should be fun, and I was trying to help that by
> providing more information about the Seattle-area boxes.

Fun can also be in the thrill of discovery. I think over-discussing
what is to be discovered (and how to discover it, viz. the incessant
chatter about how to solve clues from previous finders that we've seen on
the list lately) can ruin the fun for others. To some extent, the
cataloging which stamps are Meg Ryans and which are Roseanne Barrs is
part of that ...

Most people (apparently) disagree with me, and with the internetization
of the pastime, I guess this sort of spoilage is inevitable. All I can
ask is to not do it with the boxes I've placed. (Yes, I know I've
said this a million times, but we keep getting more newbies to say it
to ... :-))

I guess this has strayed off the original topic :-)

One thing that has been missed, tho, in the desirability thread, and
certainly in the altoids thread, is the appearance of these store
brand tins of "strong mints". I assure you that if you use one of
these, rather than a bona fide altoids tin, that your box will fall
off the desirability chart :-) (tho the new circular altoids tins
may have the reverse effect ...)

> And while there's a certain amount of subjectivity involved in
> saying a stamp is good or not, there's a certain amount of
> objectivity too.

Its with super-human restraint that I lay off this one :-) Such would
be too off-topic even for this list, if that were possible, (tho much
more interesting, at least to me)

Cheers

Many thanks, Ryan, for clearing up your point of view and your intentions in
your previous post.

My main concern was, "is it the majority view of letterboxers that the
quality of the stamp is of primary, or even high importance?" This is not
the case, as you and several others have pointed out. So, I'll let my
carving skills improve with use, rather than take a 'crash course' in
carving! :-)

My intent was NOT to start a flame war, so I'm hoping that those who are the
verge of one will take a deep breath and wait 24 hours before posting any
responses. :-)

Best regards,

HangGlider
----- Original Message -----
From: "rscarpen"
To:
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 7:07 PM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Seattle Letterboxes


> To clarify a few things in my post which, based on the posts here
> and the e-mails I've gotten, needs some serious clarifications!
>
> There's nothing wrong with crappy stamps. I've hidden them
> myself--knowingly and deliberately hidden crappy stamps, and
> even on my website I tell people straight up the desireability of
> the stamp. It's not so much that crappy stamps aren't worth
> getting, but ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL, I'd prefer the better stamp.
> If time permits, I'd like to get all the letterboxes, though.
>
> In fact, on my website I try to tell people several things about the
> letterbox including how difficult the clue is, how difficult the terrain
> is, how good/bad the stamp is, and even describe the area a bit.
> These are all aspects that affect the desireability of a stamp.
> Most people mention stuff like how hard the trail is, but neglet to
> say if the stamp is any good. This is very important to me if time
> is limited, because if I have the choice between a good stamp
> and a bad one, all else being equal, I'd prefer the good one.
>
> The poor guy going through Seattle doesn't sound like he has
> time to nab ALL the letterboxes in the area, and I wanted to point
> him out to particulary noteworthy letterboxes. All else being
> equal, I figured he'd prefer the better stamps.
>
> And while there's a certain amount of subjectivity involved in
> saying a stamp is good or not, there's a certain amount of
> objectivity too. It's like comparing Rosanne Barr with Meg Ryan.
> While *some* people might think Rosanne Barr is the hottie
> between the two, there's no contest between who'll win that
> beauty contest.
>
> Finally, I never intended to imply a letterbox is only worth
> acquiring only if it has a well-carved stamp. It's the whole
> package. Different people have different preferences. I like
> clues that are interesting or witty. I absolutely loved hunting
> down the Shakespeare letterbox in Ashland despite finding
> store-bought stamps in them. The clue totally made the
> experience great. I've heard rumors that the Davis box has an
> absolutely awful stamp (I can say this only because I've heard it
> second-hand, and I'm not the one judging the quality), but I'm
> DIEING to find the box because I've heard so much about the
> "ballsy" place it was hidden.
>
> Living in Portland, all else being equal, I'd be more likely to nab a
> box in the Columbia River Gorge than a park right next to me,
> because I like the gorge better.
>
> All else being equal, I'd prefer fantastic stamps than cruddy
> ones. All else being equal, I'd prefer cruddy stamps to
> store-bought ones. And all else being equal, I'd prefer store
> bought stamps than no letterboxes at all.
>
> But if time permits, I'd rather get all the letterboxes, cruddy and
> store-bought stamps included.
>
> And finally, while I never pointed out pricisely which stamps I
> thought were cruddy (while it's okay to point out particularly
> well-done stamps, the opposite never seems to be the case),
> many cruddy stamps do exist in the Seattle area.
>
> If someone takes offense at that observation, do something
> about it. Take carving lessons, keep practicing new techniques,
> ask other carvers how they did a particular stamp, etc. Then start
> hiding better ones. There's a world of difference between the
> first stamps I started to place (mediocre, at best) to the ones I
> place today (some of which surprise even myself in how good
> they are). But even today I still place cruddy stamps
> occasionally. Usually it's when I carve something right at the
> place I intend to hide it so I don't have time to do a careful,
> well-carved stamp or am under some other time constraint. But
> I'll still hide the cruddy stamp under the protective flag that a
> cruddy stamp is better than none at all.
>
> For me there's three parts to creating a great letterbox: The clue,
> the location, and the stamp. Any one of those can make a box
> worthwhile, but the best boxes combine the best of all three.
> Everyone always seems to post the clue and location with their
> clues, so I helped provide information about the stamps
> themselves to help narrow down which boxes to hunt for first.
>
> Letterboxing should be fun, and I was trying to help that by
> providing more information about the Seattle-area boxes.
>
> -- Ryan
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe: mailto:letterbox-usa-unsubscribe@egroups.com
> List info, archives, etc: http://www.letterboxing.org/list.html
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Ryan,

I am trying to decide on what the correct response to your rather
boorish postings should be. Choose from the following:

A - Quit while you're behind

B - Have you reached China yet?

C - Didn't your mother ever tell you that if you don't have anything
nice to say don't say anything at all

D - Plead temporary insanity and apologize to the letterboxing
community of Seattle

Trish

>
> > Everyone always seems to post the clue and location with their
> > clues, so I helped provide information about the stamps
> > themselves to help narrow down which boxes to hunt for first.
>

Hi...I may be new at this...but I thought that Letterboxing was like
treasure hunting....

You never know what the treasure is until you uncover the actual box.
Sometimes the treasure is fantastic....sometimes not as fantastic...but it
is all treasure, nonetheless!

And besides...treasure is in the eye of the beholder...what you may not like
about the stamp...someone else will love! I enjoy the surprise of waiting
to see what the stamp is...store bought or hand carved...intricatlly carved
or someone's first time effort...there are no bad stamps!!!

Magic Mike

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

You couldn't have said it any better. I Love it all!
Psychomommy


- In letterbox-usa@y..., "Magic Mike" wrote:
>
> >
> > > Everyone always seems to post the clue and location with their
> > > clues, so I helped provide information about the stamps
> > > themselves to help narrow down which boxes to hunt for first.
> >
>
> Hi...I may be new at this...but I thought that Letterboxing was
like
> treasure hunting....
>
> You never know what the treasure is until you uncover the actual
box.
> Sometimes the treasure is fantastic....sometimes not as
fantastic...but it
> is all treasure, nonetheless!
>
> And besides...treasure is in the eye of the beholder...what you may
not like
> about the stamp...someone else will love! I enjoy the surprise of
waiting
> to see what the stamp is...store bought or hand
carved...intricatlly carved
> or someone's first time effort...there are no bad stamps!!!
>
> Magic Mike
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:
http://mobile.msn.com

--- In letterbox-usa@y..., "trishkri" wrote:
> C - Didn't your mother ever tell you that if you don't have
anything
> nice to say don't say anything at all

Sounds like advice you should be heeding. I'd like to repeat
once again, I have not pointed to a single person or a single
letterbox and said anything unkind about them. In fact, the only
boxes I'd mentioned were ones that I thought were particularly
GOOD. However your post didn't sound particularly nice towards
me, but that's okay?

> D - Plead temporary insanity and apologize to the letterboxing
> community of Seattle

For what, exactly? I only tried to point out which boxes I thought
had particularly well-carved stamps. Am I suppose to apologize
to those people for a nod to their wonderful their artwork?

Let this thread die. I haven't tried to offend anyone. And anyone
who claims not to have a favorite boxes is about as honest as
Bill Clinton. I have favorite boxes, and so does everyone else on
this board. I just happened to be the unlucky fellow to mention
them. *rolling eyes*

-- Ryan

> I don't think I am alone still feeling bothered by the following:
> "I might also point out that the Seattle area seems to have a
> large percentage of pretty ugly looking stamps, and if you
> decide to go out to hunt them down to make a distinction
> between 'quality' versus 'quantity.'"

Oh, heck. I totally forgot about writing that part, and I'll admit to it
being not appropriate. I said that in passing without even
considering the ramifications it would have. It was an honest
opinion of mine, but the type of thing I know always raises
heckles and I generally try to avoid.

The point of my post was to point out the letterboxes I thought
were particularly good, because--and I'm faced to admit my
secret thoughts in public now--I was frankly disappointed in the
quality of the stamps I found the first time I tried finding them in
the Seattle area. Maybe I was spoiled because there's a large
percentage of excellent stamp carvers in the Portland area and
my frame of reference is tweaked, but I was pretty bummed
about the first ten or so stamps I found in the Seattle area. I
loved most of the hikes. The clues weren't especially
challenging, but that didn't bother me. But I wanted to show off
my new stamp collection after my "Seattle Tour", and the stamps
really weren't worth showing off. Frankly, I was disappointed. I
expected better. Maybe it's not the polictically correct feeling to
have, but I had it. It's true. I'm an awful person and should be
blindfolded and shot.

I didn't mean to let it slip out that I thought a large percentage of
stamps in the Seattle area were lousy. I apologize the slip came
out, but it's my honest opinion. I'm also sorry if you don't agree
with it.

On a brighter note, on my second pass through Seattle, I thought
the quality of stamps has steadily been improving. And since my
last visit six months ago, I've heard there are some fantastic new
carvers in the area who've taken up letterboxing and these are
MUST GET boxes because the stamps are so good. I'm anxious
to get out and check some of them out.

But the stamp is only one part of the entire letterboxing
experience, which is why I still go after boxes even if I think the
stamp is lousy. At the end of the day, though, I still prefer to find
a stamp that I can look at for hours and think, "How did they DO
that?! I've got to write this person and get some tips!" The art of
carving is just as fun as the art of letterboxing.

All stamps are not created equal. Everyone, and I mean
EVERYONE, has favorite stamps. Just like people have favorite
movies, favorite colors, favorite TV shows, favorite anything. And
some letterboxes are more popular than others. For those who
place letterboxes, consider the reasons for this: Location, clever
clues, many other boxes nearby, stamp quality--all of these
factors make up the desireability of a letterbox.

If you think the quality of the stamp doesn't make a difference in
whether people visit a box or not, you're wrong. When a person
like Funhog or The Paisley Orca hides a letterbox here in the
Portland area, I immediately want to jump out and nab it. I can't
WAIT to get my hands on it. I'm like a trained dog. When they
hide a box, I'm out there as soon as possible to nab it. The Mark
and Beth team hid one of my favorite all time stamps at Rood
Creek Park, and I'm just waiting to see what they can do next.
Mark and Beth tend to like their stamps to be a surprise for
people who find them, so I won't describe the stamp at all except
to say that it inspired me to make even better stamps. And it
generated all sorts of new ideas for how to do that. It helped me
to break out of the "mold" my stamps were in. (Note to Portland
area carvers: This is not a complete list by any stretch of the
imagination of the wonderful carvers in the area--just the most
prolific ones and what I would call my favorite stamp of all time.
Mark and Beth aren't prolific, but they are GOOD!)

I love admiring the art of a good stamp, and it does sometimes
make a difference in what boxes I will go after. Or if I plan to get
them all, it might make a difference in the order I try to nab them.
And I KNOW I'm not the only person who likes a well-carved
stamp at the end of a hunt, because I do hear about about
"so-and-so" who's new and creating wonderful stamps, and
they'll tell me that I have to make a point of nabbing some of their
boxes.

If somebody thinks they carve lousy stamps, that's okay. Do your
best and hide them anyhow. It will still bring fun and happiness
to many people. But if you can carve an incredibly good stamp, it
will bring even more fun and happiness to those who find it, and
possibly bring in others who may not have otherwise have made
the time to get it in the first place. The stamp quality alone won't
make a letterbox a ten on a scale of 1 to 10, but it'll bump the
letterbox up a couple of notches.

On totally different note--and these are NOT my observations, but
rather what I've heard from multiple sources--letterboxes on the
east coast are less desireable (as a whole) than those on the
west coast because so many on the east coast are store bought.
I've never found a letterbox outside of the western states of
California, Oregon, and Washington, so I have no opinion on the
matter myself. But I've heard lots of people (okay, four or five or
so) who have visited the east coast to nab a few boxes say how
disappointed they were with all the store bought stamps. It's a
generalization, to be sure, because I have seen wonderful
carvings returned from that area, but that's the image many
west-coasters have of east-coast letterboxes.

And if I get around to visiting the east coast, you can rest assured
I'll be polling my sources to learn which letterboxes have the best
hand-carved stamps out there. I know I won't have time to find all
of the boxes out there, so if I'm gonna look for a box there, I want
to focus on the genuine hand-carved stamps.

The reason I mention this is because it's another example of
why the stamps ARE important to the desireability of a letterbox.
Anyone who hides a hand-carved stamp--even a lousy one--on
the east coast already has a leg up on the "better" letterbox from
what I hear.

But, to get back to the original point about a large percentage of
Seattle boxes being lousy and your questions regarding such a
vague generalization:

* It's a large percentage compared to the percentage of "lousy"
stamps in Portland.

* Quality as defined by myself, common sense, and based on
what I hear others say. (Not necesarily in that order. In one
case, I even recommended a stamp as a "good" one because
so many others have said how much they liked it, even thought I
don't!)

* I never wanted to be a self-proclaimed UN-official Seattle area
Letterbox Stamp Critic, but if you start throwing that label on my
head it might go to my head. ;o)

* I apologize to those people who are wonderful carvers in the
Seattle area that may have felt I considered their stamps cruddy
in my hasty generalization.

* I apologize that all of my thoughts are not polictical correct.

* I apologize that I let one of my politically incorrect thoughts slip
out.

* And sheeze, lighten up. Who cares if the stamps around
Seattle aren't as nice as the ones in Portland? It's not a contest!

-- Ryan

PS: For the upset person who threw me into the group of "rude
men of Tacoma", I'd like to point out that I've never lived in the
entire state of Washington much less Tacoma. I'm technically
homeless at the moment, but I consider Portland my home and
should be properly placed in the group of "rude men of Portland,
Oregon."

PPS: For all the people complaining about how rude it was to
say my vague, general opinion of Seattle area stamps, I'm
amazed at how you feel it's okay to publicly attack an individual
and not feel hypocritical or ashamed of yourself.

--- In letterbox-usa@y..., LoveLetterBoxing@a... wrote:
> Save yourself dear, and stop while you're ahead.
> It all seemed to be going so well, until.......

Hey now, that's *not* my opinion. I've never found any boxes out
east, and I'm not qualified to make such judgements. Don't
shoot the messenger.

Sorry, east coasters, I'm just passing on information. Interperate
and use it however you wish. If you don't like it, stop hiding store
bought stamps. *shrug* It's no sweat off my back either way.
It's not like I'll be looking for those stamps anytime soon from a
couple thousand miles away.

-- Ryan